I have noticed that there are a lot of differences between Lutherans.Some tend to be very high church when it comes to practices (ELCA) and others tend to be very low church (WELS).
Some have bishops and are in valid Apostolic Succession (Lutheran churches in Porvoo Communion such as: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland, Church of Norway, Church of Sweden, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Lithuania; observers: Church of Denmark, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia, ELCA, and the Lutheran Orthodox Church), but others says there is no Biblical ground for Apostolic Succession (Some German Luther Church, LCMS, and I believe the WELS) are all not in Apostolic Succession.
Most Lutheran Church Bodies see Holy Absolution as a sacrament yet according to all the people I've talked to they give one of two answers:
1. I would never wish to confess my sins to a pastor when I can go straight to God!
2. Others say "Lutheran don't go to confession that for Catholics." Infact got that answer from a girl at youth group this Sunday.
I'm friends Kim's church (I don't know which denomination see belongs to) Use Incense very mass (Divine service) my once WELS friend's church never use incense no matter the occasion, by his own account. Which all leads me to wonder why there are so many differences in Lutheran denomination.
Sunday, June 20, 2010
Monday, June 7, 2010
Father V.S. Pastor
As many know Catholics, Orthodox, and Anglicans refer to their clergy as father but while I was talking an Anglican friend of mine she said:
"I know longer feeling comfortable calling my priest father", and so I had to ask "Why?"
She said "while I was reading my Bible last night I came across Matthew 23: 8~12."
I replied "If I'm not mistaken that is where he says 'call no man your father' isn't that it?"
She said "That's right! So d0 Lutherans refer to their clergy as father?"
I replied "I've never heard my pastor called father, however I believe clergy should be called father."
she replied "Why, what about Matthew 23:8~12?"
I replied "while he does say not to call anyone father, but in that same verse he says not to call anyone your teacher and you called people teacher even in church 'Sunday school teacher'. Also I believe the Rabbis he was talking to were Rabbis just for the title. While Elijah was being taken to heaven Elisha called out to Elijah 'Father! My Father!' and Paul in Corinthians talks about his followers as his children : 'am not writing to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love who is faithful in the Lord' (1Corinthians 4:14~17). Paul also speaks of Timothy as a son 'To Timothy my true son in faith' (1Timothy 1:2) and then refers to him as son in 1Timothy 1:18, 2Timothy 1:2 (but he adds dear instead of true), and refers to Onesimus as son saying 'I appeal to you for MY SON Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains' (Philemon 10). Finally while I was read my Martin Luther's Basic Theological Writings (Second Edition) at the top of the page where it say "Two Kinds Of Righteousness" it also says "By the Reverend Father Martin Luther".
She said "Thank you for thank information... now it wont be as weird when I call my priest father''.
"I know longer feeling comfortable calling my priest father", and so I had to ask "Why?"
She said "while I was reading my Bible last night I came across Matthew 23: 8~12."
I replied "If I'm not mistaken that is where he says 'call no man your father' isn't that it?"
She said "That's right! So d0 Lutherans refer to their clergy as father?"
I replied "I've never heard my pastor called father, however I believe clergy should be called father."
she replied "Why, what about Matthew 23:8~12?"
I replied "while he does say not to call anyone father, but in that same verse he says not to call anyone your teacher and you called people teacher even in church 'Sunday school teacher'. Also I believe the Rabbis he was talking to were Rabbis just for the title. While Elijah was being taken to heaven Elisha called out to Elijah 'Father! My Father!' and Paul in Corinthians talks about his followers as his children : 'am not writing to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love who is faithful in the Lord' (1Corinthians 4:14~17). Paul also speaks of Timothy as a son 'To Timothy my true son in faith' (1Timothy 1:2) and then refers to him as son in 1Timothy 1:18, 2Timothy 1:2 (but he adds dear instead of true), and refers to Onesimus as son saying 'I appeal to you for MY SON Onesimus, who became my son while I was in chains' (Philemon 10). Finally while I was read my Martin Luther's Basic Theological Writings (Second Edition) at the top of the page where it say "Two Kinds Of Righteousness" it also says "By the Reverend Father Martin Luther".
She said "Thank you for thank information... now it wont be as weird when I call my priest father''.
Eucharistic Adoration?
As many Catholics, Anglicans, and some of the Lutherans (whom I know) are aware yesterday was the Corpus Christi Feast (see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Christi_(feast) . As many know it is a day which people pay tribute to the Host (Christ Body), and so in the spirit of such a day I ask the Sunday school teacher a question I've been meaning to ask the my pastor:
"I've read that some Lutherans churches (even in the LCMS) practice Eucharistic Adoration (see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_adoration#Lutheran_belief ) so why does our, my ELCA friend's church does so why not ours?"
Her response:
" It seems like the more liberal the church the quicker to practice Eucharistic Adoration, and besides the Host is something to be received not worshipped."
Then I started thing "It seems the high church is the quicker it is to practice Eucharistic Adoration...it doesn't seem to have anything to do the being liberal or not", but I didn't say that aloud. Then I started think about the second part of her answer and I thought to myself "I see your point however I kinda disagree. I mean yes we should worship God alone, but the Host ,according to the Bible and the Catechism, is Christ body...so in itself Christ."
When I told this to my Anglican friend she told me that I sould ask my Pastor but I'm always afaird of asking question, because I'm afraid of either waisting his time or asking a stupid question. Those kinds of questions are for the internet.
"I've read that some Lutherans churches (even in the LCMS) practice Eucharistic Adoration (see Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_adoration#Lutheran_belief ) so why does our, my ELCA friend's church does so why not ours?"
Her response:
" It seems like the more liberal the church the quicker to practice Eucharistic Adoration, and besides the Host is something to be received not worshipped."
Then I started thing "It seems the high church is the quicker it is to practice Eucharistic Adoration...it doesn't seem to have anything to do the being liberal or not", but I didn't say that aloud. Then I started think about the second part of her answer and I thought to myself "I see your point however I kinda disagree. I mean yes we should worship God alone, but the Host ,according to the Bible and the Catechism, is Christ body...so in itself Christ."
When I told this to my Anglican friend she told me that I sould ask my Pastor but I'm always afaird of asking question, because I'm afraid of either waisting his time or asking a stupid question. Those kinds of questions are for the internet.
Thursday, June 3, 2010
Confession
Many times me and my friends debate over whether or whether not confession is biblical. As a High Church Lutheran I firmly believe confession is a sacrament. I will explain ,in this post, why confession is Biblical.
OT:
The first act of confession to a priest, in the Bible, is in the Old Testament. In 2 Samuel 12:13, after having committed adultery with Bathsheba God sent Nathan to David. After telling a story to prove a point and David repenting David said "I have sinned against the Lord" Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin."
NT:
The New Testament has many passages about confession. One of my favorites is John 20:23, after having coming back from the dead, Jesus appeared to his disciples, And breathed the the breath of the Holy Spirit saying "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, THEY ARE NOT FORGIVEN" Then there is where Christ gave St. Peter the keys. Now I've heard some people say "Well those passages don't mention people confessing, but only that clergy can forgive sins (general confession)", but James 5:16 "CONFESS YOUR SINS TO EACH OTHER AND PRAY FOR EACH OTHER SO THAT YOU MAY BE HEALED." That passage does mention confession.
Those are just a few passages that prove confession is Biblical.
OT:
The first act of confession to a priest, in the Bible, is in the Old Testament. In 2 Samuel 12:13, after having committed adultery with Bathsheba God sent Nathan to David. After telling a story to prove a point and David repenting David said "I have sinned against the Lord" Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin."
NT:
The New Testament has many passages about confession. One of my favorites is John 20:23, after having coming back from the dead, Jesus appeared to his disciples, And breathed the the breath of the Holy Spirit saying "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, THEY ARE NOT FORGIVEN" Then there is where Christ gave St. Peter the keys. Now I've heard some people say "Well those passages don't mention people confessing, but only that clergy can forgive sins (general confession)", but James 5:16 "CONFESS YOUR SINS TO EACH OTHER AND PRAY FOR EACH OTHER SO THAT YOU MAY BE HEALED." That passage does mention confession.
Those are just a few passages that prove confession is Biblical.
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